The 5 Ps of Writing: Place

We are now just over halfway through our release of five special episodes of The Novelry on Writing to celebrate our brand new prize, The Next Big Story. These bonus episodes will help you write a standout entry, delving into the five elements that make the story great. They are:

1. Person
2. Problem
3. Place
4. Plot
5. Prose

We hope you can enjoy these episodes on your lunch break, at work, while you are cooking in the evening, or wherever you can find the time—because story ideas can come to you anytime and any place.

For The Next Big Story, we are offering a grand prize of $100,000 for just three pages of writing. Yes, just three pages of the beginning of a novel. That’s all! So, what should those pages include? Let’s find out more in this transcript from the third special podcast episode from The Novelry on Writing, where writing coach Gina Sorell and editor Sorcha Rose explore the secrets of Place...

What is the definition of place?

SORCHA ROSE: Hi, I’m Sorcha Rose. I’m an editor here at The Novelry, and I work on crime and thriller. And today we’re joined by Gina.

GINA SORELL: Hi, I’m Gina Sorell, and I’m a writing coach here at The Novelry. I’m also the author of Mothers and Other Strangers and The Wise Women. At The Novelry, I coach women’s and contemporary fiction as well as romance, book club fiction, and Up Lit.

SR: I’m very excited to talk about our topic today, which is Place. For me, the definition of place is setting—the time that the book’s set, the destination where the story’s happening.

GS: It’s the world in which your story takes place. When I was starting to work on putting place in my stories, I found it challenging to think of it as something that I needed to integrate into my story. Once I realized that it’s not a separate thing, you know—you’ve got character, you’ve got place, you’ve got all of these things—that actually, it’s an integral part of the story. Once I started thinking of it like an actual character of the story, it opened up a whole new world to me, quite literally.

SR: I love that.

How do writers establish place?

GS: As an editor, what is something you look for when you’re looking at people’s work, to establish place? What says to you that this person has a real handle on the world that you’re exploring?

SR: A lot of writers start out like: I’m going to put up front everything to do with the world. It’s just going to be all up there at the front and then we can get into everything else.‍

But as an editor, I’m like: Oh no. The story is just as important. As you said, it’s setting, it’s place. Everything we’ve got here needs to be working in tandem. I’m looking for those subtle hints—that they’re bringing atmosphere and they’re bringing the mood, but it’s not long sentences of descriptions. I don’t need to know the paint color of every wall...

GS: Every molding, every sconce, every creaky floorboard!

SR: It’s such a good thing when you’re starting out writing to really get into the flow of your setting like that. You can explore the house, but then it’s about taking it back a little bit and making sure it’s not on the page. It doesn’t need to be there. Writers have all this knowledge about the book and the world, they want to give it all. But you’ve got to get that nice balance of not having too much on the page.

GS: The balance is so important. If anything, I probably underwrite a little bit on place to start. I want to bring the audience in and let them know where my characters are and where the world exists. But it’s as important to me to show how that place affects the characters in terms of how they react to it.

• Are they a mouse in a big city and therefore the place is really overwhelming?
• Are they somebody who blends beautifully into their affluent Upper East Side lifestyle?

It’s a way for me to comment on the situation—or not to comment in terms of pointing to it, but really to establish my character’s relationship to the world that they’re in. And that can be really helpful for the reader as well, as a way of integrating it that feels natural rather than sort of forced on top.

It’s such a good thing when you’re starting out writing to really get into the flow of your setting... You can explore the house, but then it’s about taking it back a little bit and making sure it’s not on the page. Writers have all this knowledge about the book and the world, they want to give it all. But you’ve got to get that nice balance of not having too much on the page.
—Sorcha Rose

Think about how characters react to a story’s place

SR: What you are saying about how characters are interacting—that is so important. Some of the most iconic settings, if you think of Gilead and The Handmaid’s Tale—how are the characters reacting to the world that has been created? And the rule book that Margaret Atwood has thrown at them? This is a world where women don’t have the same rights. It creates really interesting plot and exciting characters who want to go against that, and then the stakes become higher. Can you think of any other books?

GS: Well, I was thinking of Harry Potter. We have him in these two different places, where he’s in this real world of the Muggles and he’s trapped under the stairs. It’s really confined and it lets us know that he basically has as much value in that family as the mice that keep him company. I think that really sets the tone off the bat that there’s this big beautiful place, but where is he? He’s under the stairs. He’s locked in. He doesn’t know this whole other world exists. And then once he gets to Hogwarts, it’s magical in many ways. And a great contrast.

SR: Yeah, it’s a great contrast.

GS: And it’s something a lot of people have never experienced. Not a lot of us spend a lot of time in castles, especially not magical ones! And it does something for the reader, which I really love, and that’s introducing them to a new world, right? There’s something familiar—we all know what it’s like to be awe-inspired by a new setting that we haven’t discovered—but it has that wonderful element of taking you away and allowing you to escape somewhere different, which really has the ability to be very powerful.

Use all five senses to describe place

SR: Yeah. I think of romance novels and books that get me in the mood for going on holiday when they have a really lovely setting. I’m thinking Meet Me at the Lake by Carley Fortune, who is one of the judges for The Next Big Story. And that sort of: oh, romance, summer holidays... You just know the atmosphere you’re going to get when you read it.

GS: There’s more than just the actual details that describe the setting. There are the experiences, the sights, the sounds, the smells, and the emotional connection that the characters make to their places and their settings that I think are really important.

SR: Yeah, I love what you say about the sights and the sounds and the tasting. Sometimes when we are talking about setting, as an editor, when I’m reading, lots of times it’s focused on what we can see. When a writer takes me to a new city that I’ve never been to, but I feel like I’m there, that’s really magical. The food that they eat—I get so hungry. That’s great world-building for me, when I’m like: Ooh, yes, I would love a nice baked bread or a cake or something. And I’ve got to go and get some food!

And then, you know, in crime and thriller for sure, sometimes you’re not smelling the nicest of things and it puts you on edge.

GS: Absolutely. I was thinking of horror as well, which I don’t read a lot of because it’s so... It plunges you into that world so quickly, so well, and I’m like: I can’t do this!  Those books, I will read during the day.

There’s more than just the actual details that describe the setting. There are the experiences, the sights, the sounds, the smells, and the emotional connection that the characters make to their places and their settings that I think are really important.
—Gina Sorell

Borrow from other genres

GS: It’s really powerful as a writer to read things that are outside your genre as well. See how a thriller does it. See how crime and suspense does it. It’s so powerful to understand how different genres do it and then take those tips away from it, even if it’s something different. So if you’re writing romance, how quickly were you plunged into that setting in that thriller? Can you do the same thing for your reader in a romance?

You mentioned books and being taken away places on vacation. I was thinking of Emma Straub’s The Vacationers. What I love in that book is every member of the family has a different reaction to the place. And I think that’s really true. If you’ve ever gone on vacation with a group of people, you don’t all approach it the same way. And what I love about that is it gives you an opportunity to explore character without saying: Sorcha feels this way about being in the sunshine. We can just see you’re in the sunshine, it’s hot, you’re sweating... Or that could be me, I could be the hot and sweaty one! You could be just luxuriating by the pool reading your magazine! But it creates such richness for the characters and for the story.

SR: Yeah. I love what you were saying about how the characters are interacting and how plot becomes character, because there are so many books where this setting that you’ve given your character is really restricting them. I always think of those locked room thrillers where the setting is so integral to the fact that your characters can’t leave a space.

I think Lucy Foley is an amazing author. The Hunting Party, that’s set up in the Highlands in the forest, where this group of people get back together for a reunion and there’s bad blood between them. Just having that setting, of them not being able to leave, is just so obsessive and creates amazing tension. And that’s a real choice from the writer from the get-go. There’s so much that you have to put in preparation for setting up that setting. And then the setting changing with the characters in the book. You know, when things are getting bad, there’s more snow, they can’t leave. And that’s really exciting to read about and shows that your setting can’t just be one thing. It can develop over time with your characters. It’s as much a little character arc as your characters are going through.

GS: Absolutely. And the environment around the setting, right? That can change as well. Like the time of day, the world events that are happening... Suddenly, this place that you’re at that felt like an idyllic retreat—I’m thinking of Rumaan Alam’s Leave the World Behind.

They’ve gone to this beautiful place, it’s this Airbnb, it’s outside of the city, it feels so luxurious—but an event happens that nobody understands. And strange things start happening, the signal gets lost, and they’re unable to get cell phone and they feel apart from the outside world in this beautiful Airbnb that no longer feels like a retreat. It feels like they’re trapped.

When place antagonizes character

SR: We’ve spoken about setting being a character, but it can also be an antagonist. I really think about The Hunger Games, and although Katniss is trying to fight off the other tributes, you know, they create this setting in the games literally to kill them and go after them. And I always think about those hornets that are scientifically created to get them, and that fear that even the setting that she’s trying to use—you know, trying to get the water, trying to get fire going—the ‘natural world’ that they’ve created can turn against them. And that’s also a really exciting way to use setting.

It’s really powerful as a writer to read things that are outside your genre. See how a thriller does it. See how crime and suspense does it. It’s so powerful to understand how different genres do it and then take those tips away from it, even if it’s something different. If you’re writing romance, how quickly were you plunged into that setting in that thriller? Can you do the same thing for your reader in a romance?
—Gina Sorell

‍

SR: So, we’ve focused on place and setting. But a really big part of that is the time that you set a book in. We always think of historical novels, like during World War II, but in contemporary novels, we also have that. As a writer, has there been any decision-making with time in your books that felt really important?

GS: In my first novel, Mothers and Other Strangers, it was really important to me to have the novel take place pre-internet. This is a woman who’s estranged from her mother, and she’s trying to figure out who her mother was after her mother passed away. She wants to know what secrets she had, who she was really running from, what was the truth of her story. I didn’t want the character to open up a laptop and just start Googling it: Who was my mother? Because all that information, so much of it is available to us online now. I wanted her to really hunt for clues and find people and talk to people, you know? Old letters and paper and journal. Then I wanted her to have to get on a plane. I wanted her journey to be long. I didn’t want to be able to just pick up a Zoom call with somebody halfway around the world.

That was really important to me. And that gives so much more to the reader, right? Because there’s a journey, and too often we see, if we’re watching television, we see people just pick up a phone, right? Or make a call or get a text. And I wanted to remove the immediacy of the ability to access the knowledge and create the quest. The only way that was going to happen was if I put it pre-internet. And I think it was the right decision. I hope so. Can’t change it!

The time and the place

SR: If I put my editor hat on? Yeah: big tick when it has purpose. There are so many times I’m editing a book where someone, maybe for nostalgia reasons, for personal reasons, will be like: Oh, I set it in the early 2000s. And that’s absolutely fine, but why are you doing it? What is that bringing to the story?

As you said, we’re coming back to it all the time. The setting is a character. What is that character bringing to your story? Often in crime and thriIler, people will do it so that they don’t have technology to find people. That is fine to do, but it has to have a purpose. It can’t just be an easy way out of finding the murderer very, very quickly. So it’s got to have real purpose, and that’s super important.

We’re coming back to it all the time. The setting is a character. What is that character bringing to your story?
—Sorcha Rose

GS: I’m curious—from an editor’s point of view, what do you look for in really well-written historical fiction?

SR: Something people worry about before they start writing historical is: Well, I haven’t been there. I have to do lots and lots of research. And I do think you have to do your research, but there will always be someone that knows a little bit more than you and could point out historical inaccuracies.

For me, in terms of historical, I want the flavor. I want the atmosphere. I want the mood from the time that it’s come from. If there’s a war happening and there’s a conflict, how is that interacting with your characters? You can’t have a book set during World War II, and then nothing to do with World War II is impacting the people. People will see the date and they will know what was happening.

Just having an awareness; you don’t have to read lots of history books. I think people will be glad to hear that! If there’s a particular period, you know, you hear an interesting fact and you want to bring that into a story, of course—do that. Do some research, but also don’t include all that research on the page. Because that doesn’t feel like storytelling. That’s just info-dumping. We want to avoid the info-dumping.

GS: Oh, info-dumping, that’s such a good phrase for it.

SR: People know all this stuff, they want to get it on the page, and that is fine, but it has to have purpose. And that is always something I say as an editor. People who've been edited by me will be like: Nah, she’s going on about it again!

Purpose. Purpose is everything. If you are ever questioning why you’re including something, if it has historical accuracy, if it’s going to add something to the plot in terms of upping the stakes for a character because the planes are going to go over and they’re going to bomb that night—where do the characters need to be? Where can they hide? That’s great.

If you are struggling with purpose, that’s always something to come back to. To make sure it’s working as it should.

Do some research, but also don’t include all that research on the page. Because that doesn’t feel like storytelling. That’s just info-dumping.
—Sorcha Rose

Place problems to avoid

GS: That’s really wise. Would you say there are some no-nos when it comes to setting?

SR: At The Novelry, we say tools not rules. So I’ll take that. With no-nos, I think it is just the info-dumping. Putting so much in there, or a setting where I feel that you are not connected to it because you’ve just researched it and you don’t love it. You don’t have to have gone everywhere. But I need you to know that there’s some sort of flavor in it. As a writer, are there any no-nos for you, do you think?

GS: You don’t need a bazillion adjectives to describe something. I like less is more. Often, if we really know something and we really love it, we’re able to accurately convey that information. So, yes: get all the research, get all the information you need, and if you put it all on the page in an info-dump, that’s fine. But then peel back, peel back, peel back. Really try to get to the heart of what it is you’re trying to describe and trying to say. Because that can have just as much impact as a bazillion adjectives. Actually, more. Much more impact.

SR: We don’t want that. We can pull back on that for sure.

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Building your world

SR: We talked about the world we already know, but some people are going to be creating worlds that are new and fresh. What do you think is important about world-building? I love hearing about another world, but I also like to see some sort of mirroring to our own world, where I can feel grounded in it. It doesn’t feel like there’s much that I don’t understand. We’ve still got to get around, whether it’s flying cars, flying skateboards, whatever. But I need to know what the rule book is.

GS: For me, I need that portal. I need that anchor. I need to be that person who is led into that world and has a way to navigate it. So yes, even if it is completely foreign to me and it’s a wild invention—I’m riding on a flying dragon—that’s great. It’s still an animal, I still need to understand how to get on it and to ride. I still have reactions to holding onto it. There needs to be enough things that are realistic to who we are as people now, as readers, that make it accessible.

SR: And you never want to alienate your reader. We don’t want to be overexplaining things, but we also want to be introducing new original ideas—that’s exciting. It's kind of finding that point in the middle, where it’s something that feels familiar, but you’re turning it on its head and giving this original quality that goes with the story.

Talking about riding a dragon—in the Dune books, they’re riding on sandworms. I find it so intriguing, the fact that they’re getting on a worm and how integral that is to the story, and how some people are better than others because they can do that, and the hierarchies it creates.

SR: I also love The Lord of the Rings for world-building. It’s a really great example, because that is a story about people traveling on a quest. There are many different mini-worlds inside this bigger world that Tolkien has created and, in that, more characters. That’s also really exciting, when you are going to different settings and you are bringing forward all these new rules that are coming from all these different settings. That’s really exciting to read about, and people shouldn’t shy away from it. But find the balance between dialogue, plot, character, and everything else.

GS: Absolutely. As a reader, I want to know that the author knows exactly where we are and has it all thought out. I’m happy if I feel like I could ask them any question and they would have the answer. I don’t need every answer on the page, right? I don’t need everything that got them there.

It’s a snapshot: time and place. There I am. I have the time, the place, the relationship of the character to the space, how they feel about it, how it’s affecting them, how it supports the story. That’s what I’m looking for.

SR: Exactly. That big word: purpose. I think it just comes back to that.

As a reader, I want to know that the author knows exactly where we are and has it all thought out. I’m happy if I feel like I could ask them any question and they would have the answer. I don’t need every answer on the page, right? I don’t need everything that got them there.
—Gina Sorell

A writing prompt for place

SR: That’s been a great chat that we’ve had. Before we go, Gina has some homework for you...

GS: This is an exercise that I like to do, and it is from your own experience. I think it’s a great way to start.

Think about a place that immediately felt like home. It could be somewhere you know really well, or it could be a new place. For some reason, when you entered this world, everything about it felt right. You were there, you belonged. Now take a moment to write about what it was about that place that made you feel that way.

• What did you see?
• What did you hear?
• What did you smell?
• How did you interact with the environment?
• What was it that made it feel like a great fit?

Then do the exact opposite. Think of somewhere that you went that felt completely wrong. You were just a fish out of water. Nothing felt right; everything you said was wrong. Everything about it was completely in opposition to who you are. Spend some time examining why you felt that way.

• What was it about this space?
• What was it about you and your relationship to it that made you feel that way?

That can give you a lot of insight into your characters and how they react to their space.

SR: That’s great. I think that’s brilliant homework. Thanks again, Gina. And good luck to everyone who is entering The Next Big Story prize!

GS: Yes, good luck. We’re rooting for you!

Don’t forget to enter The Next Big Story

You could bring your wildest writing dreams to life by entering our prize competition to find The Next Big Story.

All you need to do is submit the first three pages (no more than 1,500 words) of a work of fiction for an entry fee of $15. Eight shortlisted entries—chosen by our judging panel, which includes Tayari Jones, Emma Roberts, Julia Quinn, Yann Martel, and Carley Fortune—will win the full support of The Novelry with access to The Finished Novel Course. Plus, one winner will take home a life-changing $100,000 (£75,000 for U.K. entrants)! Find out more at the prize page. Entries close on July 31!

Closing words

[Louise Dean] Thank you for joining us today. We are so pleased to have you along for the writing journey, and we hope to see you on another episode of The Novelry on Writing. From first draft to finished manuscript, at The Novelry you’ll enjoy one-to-one coaching from bestselling authors, live writing classes with award-winning authors and literary agents, and you’ll work with a publishing editor all the way for submission to literary agentstoward a publishing deal.

All writers learn from other writers, even the greats. Write your novel in good company. Join us at The Novelry.

We’ll show you how to start, coax your story into shape, and cheer you on to type The End.

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