Do you dream of publishing a book?
Join editor Josie Humber and author Brisa Carleton for this very special bonus episode of The Novelry on Writing to find out how Brisa turned an idea into her debut novel, Last Call at the Savoy (publishing November 4, 2025), through The Novelry’s world-class writing courses.
Brisa Carleton was introduced by The Novelry to literary agent Rebecca Scherer at the Jane Rotrosen Agency, and went on to sign a book deal with Grand Central Publishing, an imprint of Hachette, for her debut novel, Last Call at the Savoy. Pitched for readers of Josie Silver and Fiona Davis and set at the legendary London hotel, the novel follows a young writer who helps uncover the history of the famed American Bar’s first (and forgotten) female bartender, Ada Coleman.
Enjoy this conversation with Josie and Brisa to discover how expert guidance with author coaches, editorial mentorship, and a supportive writing community can take your story from first draft to publication—just like it did for Brisa. Read on for the episode transcript.
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[Josie Humber] Hi, I’m Josie Humber, an editor at The Novelry, and I’m here with a very special guest to talk about how she went from just an idea for a book to a book deal and now being published in just a few weeks’ time.
This is Brisa Carleton. She has written Last Call at the Savoy, which is being published by Grand Central on November 4. To give a brief overview of Brisa’s journey before we dive into how it all happened...
You came to us at The Novelry in October 2022 and you did our Finished Novel Course, which is our most popular course, and takes you from idea right the way through coaching, writing your first draft, editing—and now you have a book coming out!
[Brisa Carleton] Yes!
[JH] There’s much more to the story than that, and there were lots of twists and turns in it, and it takes a long time. This was three years ago now that you came to us. Tell me about where you were in your writing journey when you joined The Novelry. Had you written before? Did you have this idea already? Where were you with it all?
Why Brisa joined The Novelry
[BC] I had always been a huge reader. I love reading. I devour so many books, but I never thought of myself as a writer. Although recently, my mom said I used to write a ton as a kid. So, it had been a while [laughing] since I had done any writing, but at the time, I was working in a very stressful job. There were a lot of stakeholders and people I had to manage, and I was looking for something that would be engrossing enough that it would get my mind off work, but also that I could make everybody do what I wanted them to do.
And so novel writing seemed absolutely perfect. I looked online for a bunch of programs, but a lot of them felt more like an MFA program or that type of thing, which seemed a little overkill for what I wanted. At the time, I just thought this would be something fun, something creative. I had no expectations for myself. And The Novelry was perfect for that.
[JH] Love that. When you came to us, did you already know what you wanted to write about? Did you have a spark of an idea or did you come totally... ‘I just want to write a book and I don’t know what about’?
[BC] I knew I wanted to write women’s fiction because that’s what I read. And I also knew I wanted to have some thread of something real in it, because I also like reading books where I feel like I’m learning something. Fun page-turners, but where I come out learning about somebody in history or that type of thing. I am a big connoisseur of cocktails [laughing], so I started poking around at some of the historical women in the cocktail and liquor world. But that’s about all I had at the beginning.
I looked online for a bunch of programs, but a lot of them felt more like an MFA program... which seemed a little overkill for what I wanted. At the time, I just thought this would be something fun, something creative... And The Novelry was perfect for that.
—Brisa Carleton
Working on an idea: The Classic Storytelling Class
[JH] So, it was really doing The Classic Class that you found your idea and worked up what you were going to write about.
[BC] Yeah, absolutely. I went in very open, and the way that the course goes, it really brings you along in a way that felt really accessible to me.
[JH] Amazing. You then did coaching with Emylia Hall, who’s one of our writer coaches. She’s a bestselling women’s fiction and cozy crime author. And she would’ve had sessions with you as you developed your idea. How was that?
[BC] What was helpful about talking to her was, you know, I just said in my last answer that I wanted to write women’s fiction, but at the time, I didn’t know what that term was. I just knew the types of books I like to read. As a reader, I didn’t quite understand genre. I just would see books that look good and read them.
She was the one that helped me refine a genre that I like best. And if I did ever want this to be a commercial success, which at the time I wasn’t really thinking that far ahead, but I thought, if I’m going to put in the time to write it, I might as well at least not get that part wrong.
[JH] And I think that is a big mistake lots of first-time writers make: they’re not thinking about the market.
[BC] Right.
[JH] They’re just writing what they want to write, which is obviously great—you want to write what you want to write. But if publishing is your goal, then you do really need to think about:
- Where does this fit into the market?
- Who are my readers going to be?
- What similar books do they read?
- How am I going to deliver the types of things they want to see in the book I’m writing?
That’s what makes you perfect for this, because you read a lot, and that’s definitely one of the keys to success as an author, is actually reading a lot. So you can really pick up on ‘This is why I really like this book. This is what I want to write about. These are the kind of tropes that I want to get in, you know, I want to get in something about a historical figure.’ That helps a huge deal when it comes to success in the publishing industry.
[BC] And it made me think about my reading differently. Because suddenly I was like, oh, this is classic romance. This is women’s fiction. This is thriller. Whereas sometimes, they would all kind of feel... They all have a romance. They all have something mysterious. But really understanding that they are separate.
[JH] Yeah. And you’re totally right that the coaching is very much designed to do that, to get you thinking about these commercial ideas at an early stage—so you don’t go off in the wrong direction and write something that’s going to be difficult to get published because it doesn’t quite fit into the market.
Finishing the first draft
[JH] How did it feel getting to the end of that first draft?
[BC] That was fun. That... was amazing. One of the things that Louise always says in The Novelry course is, especially when it’s your first time doing it, not to tell everybody on the planet, ‘Oh, I’m writing a novel.’ And I really took that to heart.
[JH] So no one knew you were writing one?
[BC] No. Not even my husband. I finally had to tell him because he would walk in and I’d shut the computer and he’s like, ‘What are you doing?’ [laughing] There was something so fun about that. It felt like my own precious thing, like I was having this secret affair with my imagination.
[JH] I love that.
[BC] And so I highly recommend anybody who’s starting for the first time: keep it a secret. I mean, eventually I told him, and then once I had a draft, I had my mom and my best friend take a look. But having it be something that was just for me—I’d find myself daydreaming about it. It was really fun.
[JH] I love that. A little affair with your book.
[BC] Completely.
One of the things that Louise always says in The Novelry course is, especially when it’s your first time doing it, not to tell everybody on the planet, ‘Oh, I’m writing a novel.’ And I really took that to heart.
—Brisa Carleton
[JH] That’s a big thing we talk about at The Novelry: don’t show anyone your first draft, because you will later regret it. The first draft really is just for you. It’s to get your ideas down. It’s to work out what you want your book to be about. It’s the editing phase where you actually find the book that you will later go on to publish.
[BC] The Novelry course says that. You know, we’re told that. But I still felt like my first draft was like the magnum opus. Here, I finished the book! [laughing] And we’ve been told over and over: it’s just the first draft. But actually, I wish I’d taken that to heart because it does change so much.
Now that I’m on my second and my third book, I’m much... Not casual, but I’m much less hard on myself about a first draft because I know that most of the time I’m spending trying to make it perfect is going to be a waste.
[JH] Yeah, exactly. And that’s why we say to treat it very much as that first draft that no one’s going to read, because once you get too attached to it, then when we come in as editors and say:
- Have you thought about this?
- Do you really need that character?
- Maybe it needs to start about halfway through where you’ve got it at the moment...
It’s much easier to say yes to those things, which will hopefully improve your book, if you’re not too beholden to what you’ve got so far. And if you haven’t gone in at a line level and really made it perfect in your eyes, because otherwise... Yeah, it’s impossible to then kill your darlings.
The first draft really is just for you. It’s to get your ideas down. It’s to work out what you want your book to be about. It’s the editing phase where you actually find the book that you will later go on to publish.
—Josie Humber
Editing the book: The Big Edit Class
[JH] So, then you got to the editing phase, where I come in. I had the pleasure of working as your editor at The Novelry, and you did The Big Edit Class. And in that, we start by looking at your idea and your outline of what your ideal version of your book would be.
Do you remember that first meeting with me, and how were you feeling about it?
[BC] Yes. I was so excited because, like I said, I’d had my mom and my best friend read it at that point. And it felt like it probably wasn’t my first draft anymore, because they had great advice. They’re readers like I am, so they had great feedback.
But I was so excited to have somebody who didn’t have to tell me it’s good. That’s the other thing. In the course, you all talk about how you’re not going to tell me it’s good if it’s not good, so I went in really looking for that honest opinion. Then when you came up on the Zoom and had a smile on your face, I thought, ‘Okay, it’s not terrible.’ [laughing]
[JH] You know, we try and be encouraging, but I remember reading your idea when I first looked at the hook and the outline and thinking, ‘Oh yeah, she’s got something here. This sounds interesting.’ I could see how you’d pitch it to agents. It had this thread all about these champagne widows, and I was immediately like, ‘Ooh, who are these champagne widows?’
I was so excited to have somebody who didn’t have to tell me it’s good. That’s the other thing. In the course, you all talk about how you’re not going to tell me it’s good if it’s not good, so I went in really looking for that honest opinion.
—Brisa Carleton
[JH] And I should say that the book we are talking about now actually isn’t the book that is getting published in November.
[BC] That’s right.
[JH] Which we’ll come back to later. But it’s an interesting road to publication, and every road to publication is unique. But for now, this was the book that ended up getting you your agent.
Getting feedback from the editors
[JH] So, we gave you feedback on your idea and then it would’ve moved to feedback on your prose. Do you remember what getting that feedback was like? Because I think it’s such a difficult experience, putting yourself out there and saying, ‘What do you think about my writing?’ I’m always very impressed with all of our writers for just being vulnerable enough to get feedback from us. How was that for you?
[BC] I think it was easier for me than maybe for some, because my whole career has been in theater. I’ve been a theater producer, I’ve been involved in the development of musicals for my whole career.
[JH] So you’ve given some hard feedback before.
[BC] Well, theater is so collaborative. Book writing? You sit alone and then you share it. In theater, almost everything is done in a room of people. Early drafts of musicals are put in front of an audience immediately, and I was used to that. So, for me, I couldn’t wait for the collaborative part because I have seen first drafts of musicals and tenth drafts and you can’t get to a good musical—you cannot—nobody’s ever written anything perfect the first time. And until you get that feedback, you really don’t know what you have.
I think it’s such a difficult experience, putting yourself out there and saying, ‘What do you think about my writing?’ I’m always very impressed with all of our writers for just being vulnerable enough to get feedback from us.
—Josie Humber
[JH] I remember reading your prose for the first time and being like, ‘Oh, she’s got something here.’ You had a lovely, confident voice and a really nice, warm, women’s fiction kind of voice. It was perfect for your genre.
And I always get a spark of energy when I read someone’s prose for the first time, particularly when I’ve thought their story idea had legs and I then read the prose and think, ‘Oh, they’ve got it.’ It’s such a good feeling.
[BC] I’m glad you could find that amid all of the rookie mistakes. [laughing] This is why you’re very good at what you do. Because now you’ve read three of my manuscripts.
[JH] Yep.
[BC] But in the first one, I mean, the ‘show, don’t tell’— you’d put that a thousand times. I’m like, ‘Okay, okay, okay.’ And then I think in the draft of the next book, you maybe put it three times, and I was like, ‘Yes!’
[JH] You improved. I love that. Love to see improvement for our writers.
I remember reading your first 5,000 words and thinking you’ve got a great voice. There really is something here. But there was definitely room for improvement, room to make it punchier, to get to the point faster, for us to really understand what the main character’s problem was. But you took those notes with aplomb.
[BC] Because that’s what I was looking for. You just can’t evaluate your own work and, ultimately, if you want to write a commercial book, it’s meant to be read. So you cannot be your only reader. You have to see how it lands with other people.
[JH] This is the lesson for all the writers I work with. [laughing] You need to take the feedback. And you don’t have to do it in exactly the way that us editors are suggesting, but it’s more that we are giving you a professional reader’s view of how this is coming across. And if you want to make it better, this bit’s a bit confusing. Or I’m getting a little bored here. You can fix that in the way you want to fix it, but it’s worth noting why we’re telling you to do what we’re telling you to do.
You just can’t evaluate your own work and, ultimately, if you want to write a commercial book, it’s meant to be read. So you cannot be your only reader. You have to see how it lands with other people.
—Brisa Carleton
[BC] And the nice thing about having The Novelry that’s not my agent, not my publisher, is it felt very safe. I could send it to you, and if it really was awful or, like the latest manuscript, you’re like, ‘You can’t end it that way... You can, but we just are going to be very unhappy.’ I’d much rather have that conversation with you and fix it before it gets out in the world.
[JH] This is something we hear. We have quite a lot of writers come to us who do have agents and might have previously published. And actually, they’ve come to realize that what they’re sending their agent actually needs to be quite a few drafts in. Because an agent could drop you... You know, I don’t want to get negative about it, but that does happen. And if you’re sending really early drafts to your agent, they might start worrying slightly. ‘Oh God, has this writer got it?’
Coming to us and getting that really independent feedback, where we’re only trying to do our best and we’re only trying to help you, but we don’t have skin in the game as such.
[BC] Yeah.
[JH] And if you do come to us with something where we’re like, ‘This isn’t working,’ it’s no big deal.
[BC] Yeah! Fine. It’s fine. Nobody will ever need to know! [laughing] Well, my agent knows. She knows. She’s always like, ‘Okay, I’ll wait for Josie to read it.’ [laughing]
[JH] Oh bless...
The nice thing about having The Novelry that’s not my agent, not my publisher, is it felt very safe. I could send [the manuscript] to you, and if it really was awful... I’d much rather have that conversation with you and fix it before it gets out in the world.
—Brisa Carleton
Tackling the edits
[JH] So, you got full edits on your full manuscript. How do you go about tackling that? That’s something I get asked by writers a lot. They get all this feedback and then they’re like, ‘Okay, how do I do this?’ What would be your advice to writers on taking it?
[BC] That was my favorite part, because it had been so solitary and nobody even knew about it. And then to suddenly... The way the report comes, it had the ‘big picture,’ so I could really think about the themes and that type of thing. But then the line edits were so fun because you weren’t just saying, ‘Show, don’t tell,’ or ‘This doesn’t work.’ You were also saying, ‘Ooh, hot’ or ‘Ha ha.’ It felt like you were sitting over my shoulder, talking to me.
[JH] I mean, I remember those hot scenes and every time, I’d be like, ‘Ooh... That’s hot... Love that.’
[BC] Yeah, exactly.
[JH] It’s important to give that kind of positive feedback. I love when I see a really great line in someone’s manuscript and I just highlight it and I’m like, ‘This is so good.’
[BC] Oh, I mean—that made me feel amazing every time. I’m just like... Oh!
[JH] Yeah, it is really important to balance the good with the critical, so you don’t feel like it’s just negative stuff that you need to fix. It’s also, ‘This is working really well. Let’s keep more of that.’
[BC] But also fun things. Even when you’re correcting, you’re like, ‘Would she really do that?’ or ‘Ick! Why would he? Like, no. He turned me off there.’ And that totally makes sense. As a reader, you don’t want those red flags that pop up.
JOSIE: I love when I see a really great line in someone’s manuscript and I just highlight it and I’m like, ‘This is so good.’
BRISA: Oh, I mean—that made me feel amazing every time. I’m just like... Oh!
An invitation to The Novelry’s submission service
[JH] So we got your manuscript to the place we felt it was looking really strong. Your submission package was looking really strong—that’s your query letter, your synopsis, and your first three chapters. It did take a few rounds of revisions to get there, but you persevered, you kept going. We had faith. And we then invited you to our submission service.
The submission service is something I get asked about all the time. That is where, when we see that one of our writers has written a fantastic manuscript and we also think it will be a good fit for some of our trusted agencies, then we will invite them to this service—which is free of charge. It’s all part of being a member of The Novelry, but it is invite only. We can’t send everyone’s manuscripts out to all the agents, because we do need to be selective about making sure we keep the bar really high, but also that we are not wasting your time. We’re not wasting the agent’s time. It’s something they genuinely might represent.
All of us editors at The Novelry, we are former Big Five editors, so we really do have a good eye for what will make it with publishers and what agents will see as being a good thing they could possibly get a publishing deal for.
We saw that in your manuscript and we thought, ‘Yeah, we think we could get you an agent.’ So, we then pitched your manuscript out to a whole load of agents. Tell me about that experience from your point of view.
When we see that one of our writers has written a fantastic manuscript and we also think it will be a good fit for some of our trusted [literary] agencies, then we will invite them to this [submission] service, which is free of charge. It’s all part of being a member of The Novelry.
—Josie Humber
[BC] That was so exciting. That was incredible. Because I’m in New York and you guys are here in London, sometimes with the time difference, it made it so I’d wake up in the morning and be like, ‘Is there news? Is there news?’ Every time I would see The Novelry pop up in my inbox, it was like, ‘Oh, what happened?’ So that was really exciting.
And one of the interesting things to me about publishing—because, again, I’ve been in the theater world, and it is sort of similar to theater, where it doesn’t as much matter who you know. In a lot of industries, it matters who you know. In publishing, your agent has to fall in love with your work. But where it matters who you know is they’re getting a gazillion submissions, and so I knew that me being unknown in the publishing world wasn’t going to hurt my chances. But the odds of an agent actually reading my submission in the big pile would go way up if it was coming from The Novelry, because they would prioritize looking at it.
Now that I have an agent and a book coming out in a few weeks, I am evidently an expert in it because I get a million calls with people asking how to do it, which I don’t really know. I say: ‘Call The Novelry!’ [laughing]
[JH] Correct answer!
[BC] Yeah. But I say to them, really, the best way to do it is to write a great book.
[JH] I totally agree with you. I remember, this just came to me. On one of our calls, you said to me, ‘Is this like Broadway, where there are a million amazing singers, dancers, theater people, where it’s almost random whether or not they get their big chance?’ And I said, ‘No, I actually don’t think it is that.’
I think if you write a really good book, you will get an agent. And you will get a publishing deal. Unlike, you know, the theater where you might be watching an audition with a thousand amazing actors.
Agents really feel they’re having to sift through things, and it’s not necessarily that they’ve got a whole pile of incredible manuscripts and they just pluck one out and say, ‘Oh yeah, I’ll send this off to a publisher.’ It’s a high bar for what can get published, and not everyone is reaching it or can reach it. When you do write something good, when you write something that has a really clear market, the publisher can think, ‘Oh yeah, I know exactly who the readers for this would be, I know what I would put on the cover, I know how I would publish this...’ You jump at it and you try and publish it.
I knew that me being unknown in the publishing world wasn’t going to hurt my chances. But the odds of an agent actually reading my submission in the big pile would go way up if it was coming from The Novelry, because they would prioritize looking at it.
—Brisa Carleton
Signing with an agent
[JH] So, you had a couple of offers from agents through us. Tell me about meeting the agent you went for, for the first time.
[BC] There were two agents that ended up rising to the top. One was at a smaller agency. Younger, had still been in the business for many years, but, you know, more of a peer. And then another agent at a much bigger agency, who was senior. You know—seen it all, worked on huge books. I was really torn because Rebecca, who I ended up going with, I definitely clicked more with. But this other agent, you know, was a legend in the business.
Actually, I cold-DMd on Instagram Julia Whelan, who was my favorite audiobook narrator, but also an author. She and I had connected because she’s a theater person, and so we’d had a few exchanges on Instagram comments. I said, ‘I have offers from two agents. I’m not a weirdo. I’m not somebody coming from nowhere, like, “how do I write a book”? But I’d just love your advice.’ I told her who they were and said, ‘I know you know a lot of people in the industry,’ and to her credit, she did not need to respond.
She responded right away. She’s like, ‘It’s too hard to explain over Instagram. Can you get on a call?’
[JH] Oh wow.
[BC] We got on a call right then and talked for an hour. We’re great friends now. It’s been amazing. She really talked to me about the pros and cons and educated me that the size of the agency, the type of agent, really is a personal choice. It’s not like one is automatically better than another.
She said, ‘Who did you click with?’ and I said I really clicked with Rebecca and continue to click with her. We’re having a great experience.
[JH] And it’s really important, that agent and author relationship, because it’s that kind of weird relationship somewhere between it is professional, but it is also very personal.
[BC] Yeah.
[JH] And you want someone that, particularly as a debut author, can hold your hand a bit through that first publishing experience and that you also trust to be able to ask stupid questions.
[BC] Yep. I do a lot of that. [laughing]
[JH] To be able to just bare all to them and not be scared that they’re going to turn around and walk away.
It’s really important, that agent and author relationship, because it’s that kind of weird relationship somewhere between it is professional, but it is also very personal.
—Josie Humber
Brisa’s agent sends her book to publishers
[JH] So, you guys then went out on submission with that book. Tell me about how that went.
[BC] We went out with the book about champagne problems. At that time, I was continuing to go up the learning curve. This whole process, I felt like I never stopped going up the learning curve, which was part of the fun.
Now I know a lot more about the industry, and I’ve listened to a lot more podcasts and blogs and taken a lot more classes at The Novelry. But I think if I had known how unlikely it was for all of this, I probably would’ve been more worried about it. But it was kind of fun to go in cold.
So, she shopped it around. We got a lot of great feedback, but we didn’t get any bites from the Big Five publishers. And for whatever reason, again, I know now that not going with Big Five would’ve been totally great, but at the time, I was like, ‘I’m a Broadway producer, you know? I don’t want an off-Broadway!’
She said, ‘Well, here’s some consistent feedback.’ And it would’ve required a pretty major rewrite of the book.
But back to one of the things The Novelry drills into you—if you want to be a writer, keep writing an hour a day and keep working. So, as all these things had happened, they took months. The submission process, signing with an agent, all of that. Months were going by, and I’d just kept writing. I couldn’t do anything on the champagne book because it was out in the world.
I’d started writing another book, Last Call at the Savoy. So, when I was talking to the agent, I said, ‘I wonder if we should go out with a different book.’
And she said, ‘That’s fine. What are you thinking?’ And I’m like: this book! [laughing]
[JH] I was going to ask you how long it took you to write it, because I remember it happening really fast. And being like, wow, she’s a fast writer.
[BC] Yeah.
[JH] But you were writing it basically all along.
[BC] The second I finished the champagne edits, I started the next one. Then I sent Last Call at the Savoy to you.
[JH] Yes, I remember reading that well.
[BC] And that one was better. I mean, obviously, you improve from book to book. So many of the notes you had in the first one just weren’t even relevant because I had learned them that time.
[JH] Yeah. And so many writers don’t get their first book published. It’s a learning curve, and often it takes writing a full manuscript and editing a full manuscript to realize what you should have done all along.
What were the key learnings for you? Was there anything that you really did differently with the second book?
[BC] I wrote the second book in first person, because a lot of the notes were how to emotionally connect to the character in the first book. That people were interested in her story, but not feeling emotionally connected. So I went into it already thinking: what are ways, including having to be first person present tense, to really be in it with her?
And a lot of things about how to keep the stakes high, which I think is really fun, because I would already know the stakes of what my character’s trying to do. And that’s also a musical theater thing—in every musical theater, the second song is the ‘I Want’ song. What’s the character trying to do? But silly things, like while they’re trying to accomplish that, did they spill their coffee? Those little things you put in that just up the intensity and the pacing of a scene.
So that was really fun. Frequently, when I’m writing a first draft, I’ll write it through and then I’ll go back and put more of those little twists in.
[JH] I love that. That’s definitely something I talk to writers about all the time—making sure your main character wants something, and stakes for if they don’t get that thing. If you can nail those in the first couple of chapters, maybe three chapters, then the reader will really be behind that character and really want them to do well and get what they want.
It’s such a simple thing, but lots of writers don’t see that the first time around. It takes some thought and it takes really drilling that into you as a writer. Make your character want something.
[BC] But also little stakes, like having a scene where my character could be sitting in their living room thinking about what they’re going to do. Or they could be having that same internal struggle while they’re about to miss a plane. You know?
[JH] Yeah, it gives energy to the page.
[BC] Yeah. Absolutely.
Often it takes writing a full manuscript and editing a full manuscript to realize what you should have done all along.
—Josie Humber
[JH] So you got feedback from me, and did it change much after that feedback?
Kill your darlings
[BC] Last Call at the Savoy has a dual timeline, so the biggest struggle I had was striking the right balance and keeping the pacing up with a contemporary timeline with this New York party girl who’s at the Savoy Hotel helping her pregnant sister, and then this historical timeline about this real-life bartender, Ada Coleman, who… I loved the history part, but I kept being told by you (and my mother) that I needed to pull out the historical pieces.
Now the book is coming out soon, I’ve saved all of that. All the people who love history like I do can read it on my website.
[JH] Love it.
[BC] But, I mean, talk about ‘kill your darlings.’ There was so much there that I just thought, ‘Oh, somebody would love to know this tidbit.’ But it was holding up the pacing, so it had to go.
Last Call at the Savoy goes out on submission
[JH] And how was the second submission to publishers that your agent did? How did that differ from the first?
[BC] The conversation about champagne and do we want to pull it from submission happened in November, and then we left the holidays because that’s a tricky time in publishing. So we went out in January and almost immediately got a couple bites. First of people saying they wanted to read the full manuscript, and then some interest.
I remember very specifically getting the call about the publisher I ended up going with, because I was actually on a flight to London to look at a theater production. It had been one of these awful... I’d been traveling by myself. My flight, we boarded, but then it got canceled. It was an overnight flight, so I was in the airport at 2 am. They were like, you need to go to a hotel. But then the hotel, there was a COVID issue or something. I don’t know. It was the worst travel thing. I hadn’t slept.
We finally land. It was one of those where everybody actually clapped, because all of us on the plane had been through this harrowing two-day, 48-hour travel adventure. The wheels touched down. I turned my phone on, and before we’d even stopped at the gate, there was a call from my agent saying we have an offer from Grand Central. And it was like, oh my gosh. Suddenly, the whole travel nightmare was forgotten.
[JH] Did you go for a meeting in person with Grand Central?
[BC] We did a Zoom. And I had to call Rebecca, my agent, after and say, ‘I don’t know. I liked her, but I have nothing to compare it to.’
We talked through some of the things that were discussed, and Rebecca said, ‘Oh yeah, I think this sounds really good.’ But it was kind of funny to feel like I had no idea what I was doing, but I liked what I was hearing. And it gut-check felt like the right thing.
[JH] Yeah. They’re an amazing publisher. It was a great deal.
The wheels touched down. I turned my phone on, and before we’d even stopped at the gate, there was a call from my agent saying we have an offer from Grand Central.
—Brisa Carleton
From book deal to publication
[JH] So, you got your publishing deal, and we are now about six weeks out from publication. How has that whole experience been?
[BC] It’s been really exciting. It’s been... slow. [laughing]
[JH] Yeah. Publishing is slow. If there’s one thing you should know about publishing, it’s that it takes its time. Sometimes it’s two years from the point of getting your deal to actually being published.
[BC] When we finally got the offer and the negotiation and all of that, I think I finally signed the deal maybe in May of last year. May of 2024. And my agent says we’re looking to publish in November. I’m like, ‘Oh, perfect, great.’ And she’s like, ‘No, no. November the following year.’ I’m like, does it need that much work? And she’s like, no. I mean, there will be edits, and there were, but that’s just the timeline they work on.
[JH] Yeah. It’s the timeline they work on because you might do edits, then you need to get the proofs made, and then you need to build that buzz and be sending it out to people and be getting quotes.
I saw you had a Jodi Picoult quote.
[BC] Yes. I have amazing endorsements. There’s been so many amazing writers in the women’s fiction genre who have taken me under their wing and given me advice and lent blurbs and quotes and introductions.
That’s been one of the pleasant surprises about it all—that writers, at least in women’s fiction, aren’t... It doesn’t feel competitive. It’s not like, ‘Oh, if your book is successful, then you’re going to steal a spot from mine.’ They really have been pulling me up, and that’s been amazing.
[JH] I love to hear that.
[BC] But it’s slow. Because I announced to my friends, ‘Oh, I have a book coming out.’ And even now, they’re like, ‘Where is it?’ [laughing]
[JH] Have you had a finished copy in your hand yet?
[BC] I’ve had a galley. So that was really exciting, but not yet the full hardback.
[JH] Oh my God. It’ll probably be a couple of weeks, maybe.
[BC] Yeah. I think really, really soon.
[JH] Ooh!
[BC] I know. I can’t wait.
The best piece of advice from The Novelry: writing the hook
[JH] So, I have a few final questions for you. What’s a piece of advice that will always stick with you from your time at The Novelry?
[BC] The piece of advice that will stick with me is—and I was so reluctant to hear it all again—was how important the hook is. It’s so hard to write the hook, that one sentence that’s going to grab somebody.
[JH] Yeah. That one-line pitch.
[BC] It’s so hard to write. And I’m like, ‘But there’s going to be a blurb and then people are going to read the book. Why do you need this?’ And even though you guys said it over and over again, I didn’t fully get how important it was not just to sell the book, but to be like the guiding direction of it.
And it really has been, on this third manuscript, the totally different book that I’m writing. I felt like I got stuck and I had to go back and say, ‘No, I’m not clear on the hook.’ And once I got clear on the hook, it just flowed.
[JH] Yeah. That is so important.
[BC] And even though I skipped it in the first two and just sort of managed to come back around to it, I will never not start with that again.
Even though you guys said it over and over again, I didn’t fully get how important [the hook] was not just to sell the book, but to be like the guiding direction of it. And it really has been, on this third manuscript, the totally different book that I’m writing. I felt like I got stuck and I had to go back and say, ‘No, I’m not clear on the hook.’ And once I got clear on the hook, it just flowed.
—Brisa Carleton
[JH] It’s really important to almost start with your hook and be like, ‘Okay, when I’m going to be selling this a lot later down the line, maybe years down the line, how am I going to describe it in a couple of sentences when people ask me: what’s your book about?’
Because that’s what it comes down to. When you are on your publicity trail and you are talking to, or just talking to friends and family about your book, you need to be able to have a quick answer to ‘What’s your book about?’
And, ideally, it needs to really make someone want to read it.
[BC] Yep.
[JH] And you’re totally right that in the editing process, coming back to that hook and being like:
- What have I said this book is about?
- What’s drawing people in?
- What am I promising people through this hook?
If you can keep coming back to that and making sure you’re delivering on that, that’s how you write a book.
[BC] Well, now I think about my ideas in hook form. Because I see when they’re done well. And not that a book that takes a few more sentences can’t get there, but even Last Call at the Savoy, I feel like it takes me one sentence too long to describe it, and it’s been annoying. [laughing] So now I’m like, ‘Okay, I need that really tight.’
[JH] Definitely. Quite a lot of editors go on to write books. All the editors I know, they will start with their hook. They won’t put pen to paper until they’ve got a good hook.
[BC] Yep.
[JH] And they will also start with comparison books. Who is this for? What market am I aiming for? When you have those two things, it’s so much easier to then write the book you’re trying to write, and for it to deliver in the way you want it to deliver.
Advice for writers who want to get published
[JH] What advice would you give to writers who want to become published authors?
[BC] There is a difference between loving and wanting to be a writer and wanting to be a published author. And I see people confuse that, because they want to share this crazy idea or whatever they’re trying to do, because they love the idea of doing it.
Versus when you want to be a published author. You need to know your genre. You have to write to the tropes. I mean, occasionally there’s the unicorn that can invent a new genre or go across them. But if you want the straightest path to being a published author, you really have to be writing more for the reader than for yourself.
That really appealed to me. I loved thinking about how somebody was going to receive it, but if you’re a writer that’s more thinking about your process of writing it...
[JH] Which is great.
[BC] …you might find it a little unpleasant [laughing] when you try to sell it.
[JH] Exactly. It’s great if you love writing and are just writing for the love of writing, then go and do that.
[BC] Absolutely.
[JH] And The Novelry will help you do that and make that the best book it can be.
[BC] Yes, and I love that.
[JH] But if you really want to be published, then exactly. You’ve got to be thinking about:
- Your audience
- Where it fits into the market
- What you’re doing
- That one-line pitch
All this stuff that comes down to the much more commercial aspects of it. Of the fact that publishing is an industry where they’re trying to make money, so they’re going to be thinking about it in terms of: Where is this going to sell? Something that’s been written for the love of the writer, while it might be the perfect book for that writer, it might not be the perfect book to reach large audiences, which is obviously what publishers are trying to do.
Something that’s been written for the love of the writer, while it might be the perfect book for that writer, it might not be the perfect book to reach large audiences, which is obviously what publishers are trying to do.
—Josie Humber
What should a writer do if they only have an idea?
[JH] What would you say to someone with an idea but no draft yet?
[BC] Call The Novelry. [laughing] And it’s what I do say to everyone.
[JH] We’ll clip that!
JOSIE: What would you say to someone with an idea but no draft yet?
BRISA: Call The Novelry.
[BC] No, but truly. I mean, you look at my journey—it was such a straight path and I learned so much along the way, but I didn’t feel like I wasted a lot of time going in the wrong direction. Every time I started to veer off, whether it was taking a course or meeting with my coach or meeting with you, I got nudged back into the path that I’d said I want to be on.
And to your point, The Novelry at the beginning says: What’s your goal in doing this? I liked that, because maybe not everyone does want to write a commercial book, and that’s very fair. And when I said I did, every single aspect of The Novelry pointed me in that direction.
[JH] Yeah. We will always ask: What is your ambition? If it’s just the love of writing, then we will help you with that. We will give you that feedback that will make your writing better. But if you say, ‘I want to get published, I want a Big Five publishing house,’ then we will give you the advice in line with that.
[BC] Yeah. Nobody is more shocked than I am that it actually happened. You know, I can’t even believe it. It’s... I keep pinching myself.
The Novelry at the beginning says: What’s your goal in doing this? I liked that, because maybe not everyone does want to write a commercial book, and that’s very fair. And when I said I did, every single aspect of The Novelry pointed me in that direction.
—Brisa Carleton
[JH] And what advice would you give your earlier self before starting?
[BC] Probably what I said earlier about not worrying about first drafts, about not being precious about it. Just to get words on a page. To trust my instincts as a reader. And to get it in front of you as soon as possible. [laughing] To get it in front of the expert outside eyes.
[JH] Well, that’s everything. Thank you so much, Brisa, for doing that.
[BC] No, thank you. I mean, you really got this book to where it is. I really appreciate it.
[JH] You did all the hard work. I just gave my opinions.
So, Last Call at the Savoy is out on November 4, 2025. For people that want to follow you, how do they do that?
[BC] You can find me best at Instagram @brisacarleton. I also just launched a Substack, so you can find me there. Subscribe, follow my newsletter. I have recommendations on what I’m reading, my writing process, all kinds of things. I love hearing from people, so I hope you reach out.
[JH] Thank you so much for listening. Subscribe to our channels, or wherever you’re listening to this podcast, and leave a comment about your writing journey and the idea you’ve got that might just become that published book one day.
Closing words
[Louise Dean] Thank you for joining us today. We are so pleased to have you along for the writing journey, and we hope to see you on another episode of The Novelry on Writing. From first draft to finished manuscript, at The Novelry you’ll enjoy one-to-one coaching from bestselling authors, live writing classes with award-winning authors and literary agents, and you’ll work with a publishing editor all the way for submission to literary agents toward a publishing deal.
All writers learn from other writers, even the greats. Write your novel in good company. Join us at The Novelry.
We’ll show you how to start, coax your story into shape, and cheer you on to type The End.
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Last Call at the Savoy by Brisa Carleton
Six years ago, Cinnamon Scott was a young writer on the rise in New York City. But since the sudden loss of her parents, she’s been stuck in place, retreating to a life of endless partying—made possible by the massive fortune she’s inherited. Despite their tragic loss, she and her older sister Rosemary have always had each other to lean on. But now, with Rosie living in London and about to give birth to twins, Cinnamon feels more lost than ever.
When Rosie is put on bedrest, Cinnamon flies to her sister’s side, where she’s temporarily living at The Savoy. Immediately swept away by the beauty and history of the legendary hotel and its famed American Bar, Cinnamon finds ample opportunity to distract herself. When the late shift bartender tells her the story of Ada Coleman, the woman who crafted the cocktail recipes The Savoy popularized in its famous handbook a century ago, Cinnamon is inspired by the bartender’s vivid stories of Ada’s fearlessness and can’t understand why Ada’s name is nowhere to be found.
After meeting a handsome historian researching the hotel and realizing that Ada is likely to be once again overlooked, Cinnamon must decide if she can overcome her demons and stand up for Ada's story. And, along the way, she might just save her own story, too.
Be sure to order Last Call at the Savoy in the U.S. now, and place your preorder for its January 2026 release in the U.K.!